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  1. #1
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    "old school" or "New school"

    I would like to start off by saying hello everyone. In this thread I will be talking about "Old school" to our "New school" H4x0rs. I would like to make some simple but interesting views on both "arras". parently, to people enamored of the 'old school' of hackers, like Steven Levy or Clifford Stoll, there is a big difference. Indeed, to the 'old style' MIT/Stanford hackers, they resent the bestowal of their honored title on 'those people'(Which I would also, As the SkZ0r) by the media... to many people, 'hacker' is reserved for a class of people in the 60s, a certain 'breed' of programmer who launched the 'computer revolution,' but just can't seem to be found around any more... according to these 'old school' hackers, hacking meant a willingness to make technology accessible and open, a certain 'love affair' with the computer which meant "they would rather code than sleep." It meant a desire to create beauty with computers, to liberate information, to decentralize access to communication...... (How about you All-Nettols? What would you rather do sleep or code? How great is your determination?

    Moving on......

    What about the 'new' hackers? Many of the 'old' hackers think they don't deserve the name, preferring to call them 'computer criminals,' 'vandals,' 'crackers,' 'miscreants,' or in a purely generational swipe, 'juvenile delinquents.' The media uses the word 'hacker' to refer to young, clever computer users who use their modems to break into systems without authorization, much as depicted in the movie War Games. And the old school hackers resent this. Many of the new hackers aren't good programmers; they are just people without ethics who have no reservations about swiping passwords, codes, software, and other information and trading them with their friends. They may be good at exploiting security holes in systems, but all they succeed in doing (say people like Stoll) is destroying the trust on which open networks are built.I am interested, needless to say, in the generational aspect to this battle over the name 'hacker'. Most of the old hackers of the 60s are of course now living in the *0s - Baby Boomers who, like their ex-hippie friends, went from 'freak' to 'straight,' finding jobs in computer security firms and corporate software conglomerates. And like other counterculturalists from the 60s, they just can't seem to figure out this Generation X forming the counterculture of the *0s... where's the openness? The idealism? These "juvenile delinquents" just don't live up to the high moral standards of the 60s nostalgiacs like Levy and Stoll. But then, Levy rants about those great hackers who founded Apple Computer and launched the PC revolution. Well I would like some input on this topic. See what all of your points of views are. What do you think, who has more "power" who are the greatest h4x0rs out there, the old school originals, or the New school revolution?
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    ~-I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one's self is as much a departure from truth as to exaggerate one's own powers. .~
    **[url]www.intl-alliance.com[/url] **
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  2. #2
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    Nice to be from pirates, but not Steal expense of the people
    The theme wonderful Thank you

  3. #3
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    Here's a tiny little parable from deep inside me:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Inner Sanctums of My Mind
    Imagine you are sitting in a room. There are no cracks, doors, windows, or other exposures. There is a high-tech security system in place so that if you move a fentometer or more from where you are sitting, you will be electorocuted instantly by the metal floor, which is hooked up flawlessly (remember with no cracks) to millions of wires ready to send millions upon millions of amps of electricity through your body. How do you get out?

    Simple. Stop imagining.
    Putting ourselves into groups, classes, races, and other such divisions results in nothing but hatred and enmity for the other groups, and a feeling of superiority. I don't see any reason to call myself an 'old-school hacker' or a 'modern hacker'. Putting youself into these divisions doesn't serve any useful purpose whatsoever. If people would stop with the whole "white hat black hat" craze and just come together, we might actually do something useful for the technological community instead of making our little hacking groups, having our little e-wars and debates about what a true hacker is, etc.
    "Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains." -Karl Marx

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbat View Post
    Here's a tiny little parable from deep inside me:

    Putting ourselves into groups, classes, races, and other such divisions results in nothing but hatred and enmity for the other groups, and a feeling of superiority. I don't see any reason to call myself an 'old-school hacker' or a 'modern hacker'. Putting youself into these divisions doesn't serve any useful purpose whatsoever. If people would stop with the whole "white hat black hat" craze and just come together, we might actually do something useful for the technological community instead of making our little hacking groups, having our little e-wars and debates about what a true hacker is, etc.
    This feeling of 'superiority', is what drives others to learn and to overcome obsticals. The more one knows, the better. The more one knows drives others to learn and to become 'superior' the better.Therefor the learning process is never ending... There will allways be one trying to overcome another and in this process both will be very advanced in there field. Therefor it would be very useful... True h4x0rs put themselves in there own categories, and by me stating, that if one would put themselves in a certain category "Old school/New school" simply meens, what "type" are you. Do you use old "ways" of getting around a certain situation, or would you use newer more modern techniques. There might not be a purpose, but theres a sense of knowing what "type" of "individual" you are. I wont comment on your "If we come together something useful might get done" theory. If you have been around the past (let's say) *0-20 years. You would realize how much more advance the ********* community world has become. Now you tell me this. If 'we', weren't getting together were would the world be? That was a poor sense of judgment on your part.(Think about it). Ok mabey I will talk about your comment. lol . So your telling me nothing "useful" has gotten done in the technological community in the past *0-20 years?... I would like you to be more precise on your "examination" of todays technological community theory.
    As for the e-wars and debates, this is what 'we' use as a training tool. The more things that are discussed, and the more they are examined with different points of view. The more more we learn, as well as adapt. Expressing ones views is all but "healthy". As to your " debates about what a true hacker is, etc". Now that I would understand. If a bunch of people getting together talking/debating on what a true hacker is, nothing wouldn't get done you are right, I will agree with you on that point. BUT, those people who do that, only do that cause they are not "l**7" they can't keep up. So they argue over what a true "h4x0r" really is . I true h4x0r dose not argue over over such nonsense. They would simply ignore those individuals and move on to bigger and more useful ideas/points of view. Being a h4x0r is all about learning as much as you can, and adapting to the surroundings that are given. ( Theres more to it then that, but if I were to go on what a h4x0r really is, I would fit in the category in which you talked about ) So I guess I would be contradicting myself.
    **[url]www.intl-alliance.com[/url] **
    <^Learn about the world and whats going on it. Express your views on whats really going on. Example, World media, Types of government control,how privacy advocates are fighting back! All are welcomed, downloads and much much more! We have just opened looking for >MODS< Plz apply inside if interested.<

  5. #5
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    I'm not talking about society, I'm talking about hackers and such of the modern (say, year 2000) age. They find nothing better to do then have little e-wars where everyone "owns" the other person's server, forum, or whatever it may be. I have no doubt of these hackers' skills; they are pretty good, many of them better than me. But what they are using it for is quite stupid.

    The point of my statement was that more would get done as far as computer security goes if hackers started doing something together instead of owning each other and updating their Zone-H profiles with new entries. I can say nothing as to what the people before us, like the LOD, MOD, cDc, l0pht, etc. did for the computer security world, because I wasn't there to experience it. But I do know that hackers nowadays aren't as motivated to actually help as they are to brag and show off.
    "Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains." -Karl Marx

  6. #6
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    Real hackers don't use the words "h4xor" and "***7", for starters.
    Who needs drugs when you have electrons?

  7. #7
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    WH47 d*D u 54y m*k*?? * M 4 L**7 h4X0R, D0'n7 7*LL M*h 7H47 *'m N07 4 l**7 H4X0R ku2 * 74lk *n L**7 4Nd u5* W0RD2 l*K* l**7 4nD H4X0R! *'M *0Nn4 P*N' U 70 D*47h N0w, Ku2 u m4d* M*H 4N*Ry!
    "Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains." -Karl Marx

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